A Big Waste of Time and Money
12Daily Pro A Scam?
By Trina L.C. Schiller
The latest rage on the net is the 12Daily Pro, paid for surf program. Everyone is raving about it. But, is it on the level? I have to wonder...
By Trina L.C. Schiller
The latest rage on the net is the 12Daily Pro, paid for surf program. Everyone is raving about it. But, is it on the level? I have to wonder...
Let's start from the beginning.
When I originally went to the 12DP web site, I read through it and my first impression was this: Why would people pay to surf other people's web sites? I wasn't impressed with what I saw, so I didn't give it further thought; I closed the page and went on with my regular activities.
After being approached by numerous people, to join this program, I yielded to the pressure and joined. I figured that I would use it as my test program, and give it a year before rendering an opinion, and writing a review.
As you have noticed, I couldn't wait 12 months to release my impression of 12DP. Here is my report, based on my own experience.
I joined as a free member, at least for the first 7 days. After that, you are required to buy upgrade units. What that is exactly, still is a bit fuzzy to me. I bought two upgrade units, at $6.00 each.
I went into my members area and set about making sure that all of my information was complete, and to add my web site link to the rotation. And this is where I ran into my first snag.
The script they were using was not working, and would not allow me to complete the process of adding my link. Every time I would click on the submit button, I would be redirected back to my account summary page, and the link would not be added.
As you can imagine, this was quite frustrating. I then went to the FAQ area, to see if I was doing something wrong. I found no information there, pertaining to my dilemma. I clicked on the contact link, and was taken to their support ticket page. I thought, okay, I'll let them know what is going on, and they'll fix it. No big deal.
This is where I ran into my second snag.
After registering for the support site, I logged in and much to my surprise, the link to submit a ticket was not there. I could view tickets, troubleshoot, read the knowledge base, but as for submitting a ticket, no dice. My frustration was mounting.
I took upon the task of doing a whois search, in order to find contact information, because there is no such information anywhere on their site. I found what I was looking for, and sent them an email, explaining that there was no way for me to submit a support ticket, and telling them about my link rotation problem. I sat back and waited for a response. In the meantime though, I kept surfing every day.
More than a week went by and I received no response from 12DP. During my waiting period, I kept going back to the support site, and one fine day, the submit a ticket link appeared. So, I submitted a ticket about the fact that my link wouldn't be added to the rotation as it should be, and I let them know that I was not happy at the lack of response I received from the email I'd sent.
More time passed, and finally, I was able to get my link into rotation. However, I still had received no response from the support team whatsoever.
Out of curiosity, I went back to the support site, and selected, View Tickets, to see the status of my ticket. It had been closed. They closed it without a single response, not even a note to say the problem had been fixed and sorry for the inconvenience. Nothing.
I wrote to them and asked them why they had closed the ticket without responding, and guess what... They didn't respond to that one either. Now I was really frustrated with the powers that be at 12DP. I do not, as a paying customer, appreciate being ignored. I would never treat one of my customers with such disregard.
When my first upgrade had expired, I had made a whole $3.84. I paid in $12.00 and received a payment of $15.84. Okay, they paid me. So, I bought another two upgrade units for another $12.00, and kept surfing.
Then I noticed that I was not being credited for all of the surfing I was doing. I'd surf 50 sites and get credit for 9, or 12 sites, or I would only be permitted to surf 9 sites in a day. So, I wrote to support again. This time I asked them why I wasn't receiving proper credit. Then I asked them why my second (pending) pay out was only $11.52, not even the $12.00 I had spent for the upgrades. I LOST MONEY!
I did get a response this time, but it wasn't at all what I had expected. The reply I got was to tell me that I had submitted my ticket to the wrong department! Can you believe it?
Now this really made me angry! Just so that it is understood, when you submit a support ticket, they give you four very specific options for a topic. None of those topics were related to my problem. So what was I supposed to do? I did what anyone would do, and submitted my ticket to the category that was closest to my query.
I wrote back and let them know what I thought about the reply I finally received. I told them that I felt that their customer service sucked and I was very unhappy with their program. I asked for a refund on my last upgrade (the pay out on it is still pending), and told them I was going to cancel my account. I also told them that I was planing to write this review.
As you may have guessed, I have not heard from them.
So let's recap:
1. I lost three weeks of page views because their script would not allow me to add my link.
2. They never responded to my help request.
3. I was cheated out of surfing credits, which caused me to lose page views for my site, as well as actual cash.
4. The one and only response I received through this whole period was a rude comment that I submitted my problem under the wrong topic.
I don't care how many members a business has, there is no excuse for shoddy customer service, and the way that I have been treated by 12DP. If their membership is so large that they can't answer people who submit support tickets, then they need to hire on more help. (I wonder how many people are having troubles, if they cannot answer one customer.)
Now, the problems I have experienced are not the only problems with 12DP. Since going live, they have had chronic problems with their payment processors. First they discontinued their contract with E-gold. (A payment processor that I wouldn't work with anyway.) Then they joined forces with EMO, a new processor on the block. After doing that, StormPay issued an ultimatum, stating that 12DP must use them exclusively, or not at all. So, 12DP dumps EMO. Now, 12DP claims that they are having problems getting their funds released by StormPay. Is this company being run by professionals, or a couple of high school kids?
Who will suffer because of this? The program members, that's who.
The people behind 12DP obviously hung out their Internet shingle before their system was ready. Their scripts were not tight, their payment process was not secure, and their customer service is non-responsive. They were not prepared to handle a membership as large as the one they drew.
Are they a scam? I wouldn't go that far, but I will say that to join their program is a waste of time and money. I will be deleting my account, as soon as I get my money, and I would recommend to everyone else to do the same.
Copyright © 2006
The Trii-Zine Ezine
www.ezines1.com
When I originally went to the 12DP web site, I read through it and my first impression was this: Why would people pay to surf other people's web sites? I wasn't impressed with what I saw, so I didn't give it further thought; I closed the page and went on with my regular activities.
After being approached by numerous people, to join this program, I yielded to the pressure and joined. I figured that I would use it as my test program, and give it a year before rendering an opinion, and writing a review.
As you have noticed, I couldn't wait 12 months to release my impression of 12DP. Here is my report, based on my own experience.
I joined as a free member, at least for the first 7 days. After that, you are required to buy upgrade units. What that is exactly, still is a bit fuzzy to me. I bought two upgrade units, at $6.00 each.
I went into my members area and set about making sure that all of my information was complete, and to add my web site link to the rotation. And this is where I ran into my first snag.
The script they were using was not working, and would not allow me to complete the process of adding my link. Every time I would click on the submit button, I would be redirected back to my account summary page, and the link would not be added.
As you can imagine, this was quite frustrating. I then went to the FAQ area, to see if I was doing something wrong. I found no information there, pertaining to my dilemma. I clicked on the contact link, and was taken to their support ticket page. I thought, okay, I'll let them know what is going on, and they'll fix it. No big deal.
This is where I ran into my second snag.
After registering for the support site, I logged in and much to my surprise, the link to submit a ticket was not there. I could view tickets, troubleshoot, read the knowledge base, but as for submitting a ticket, no dice. My frustration was mounting.
I took upon the task of doing a whois search, in order to find contact information, because there is no such information anywhere on their site. I found what I was looking for, and sent them an email, explaining that there was no way for me to submit a support ticket, and telling them about my link rotation problem. I sat back and waited for a response. In the meantime though, I kept surfing every day.
More than a week went by and I received no response from 12DP. During my waiting period, I kept going back to the support site, and one fine day, the submit a ticket link appeared. So, I submitted a ticket about the fact that my link wouldn't be added to the rotation as it should be, and I let them know that I was not happy at the lack of response I received from the email I'd sent.
More time passed, and finally, I was able to get my link into rotation. However, I still had received no response from the support team whatsoever.
Out of curiosity, I went back to the support site, and selected, View Tickets, to see the status of my ticket. It had been closed. They closed it without a single response, not even a note to say the problem had been fixed and sorry for the inconvenience. Nothing.
I wrote to them and asked them why they had closed the ticket without responding, and guess what... They didn't respond to that one either. Now I was really frustrated with the powers that be at 12DP. I do not, as a paying customer, appreciate being ignored. I would never treat one of my customers with such disregard.
When my first upgrade had expired, I had made a whole $3.84. I paid in $12.00 and received a payment of $15.84. Okay, they paid me. So, I bought another two upgrade units for another $12.00, and kept surfing.
Then I noticed that I was not being credited for all of the surfing I was doing. I'd surf 50 sites and get credit for 9, or 12 sites, or I would only be permitted to surf 9 sites in a day. So, I wrote to support again. This time I asked them why I wasn't receiving proper credit. Then I asked them why my second (pending) pay out was only $11.52, not even the $12.00 I had spent for the upgrades. I LOST MONEY!
I did get a response this time, but it wasn't at all what I had expected. The reply I got was to tell me that I had submitted my ticket to the wrong department! Can you believe it?
Now this really made me angry! Just so that it is understood, when you submit a support ticket, they give you four very specific options for a topic. None of those topics were related to my problem. So what was I supposed to do? I did what anyone would do, and submitted my ticket to the category that was closest to my query.
I wrote back and let them know what I thought about the reply I finally received. I told them that I felt that their customer service sucked and I was very unhappy with their program. I asked for a refund on my last upgrade (the pay out on it is still pending), and told them I was going to cancel my account. I also told them that I was planing to write this review.
As you may have guessed, I have not heard from them.
So let's recap:
1. I lost three weeks of page views because their script would not allow me to add my link.
2. They never responded to my help request.
3. I was cheated out of surfing credits, which caused me to lose page views for my site, as well as actual cash.
4. The one and only response I received through this whole period was a rude comment that I submitted my problem under the wrong topic.
I don't care how many members a business has, there is no excuse for shoddy customer service, and the way that I have been treated by 12DP. If their membership is so large that they can't answer people who submit support tickets, then they need to hire on more help. (I wonder how many people are having troubles, if they cannot answer one customer.)
Now, the problems I have experienced are not the only problems with 12DP. Since going live, they have had chronic problems with their payment processors. First they discontinued their contract with E-gold. (A payment processor that I wouldn't work with anyway.) Then they joined forces with EMO, a new processor on the block. After doing that, StormPay issued an ultimatum, stating that 12DP must use them exclusively, or not at all. So, 12DP dumps EMO. Now, 12DP claims that they are having problems getting their funds released by StormPay. Is this company being run by professionals, or a couple of high school kids?
Who will suffer because of this? The program members, that's who.
The people behind 12DP obviously hung out their Internet shingle before their system was ready. Their scripts were not tight, their payment process was not secure, and their customer service is non-responsive. They were not prepared to handle a membership as large as the one they drew.
Are they a scam? I wouldn't go that far, but I will say that to join their program is a waste of time and money. I will be deleting my account, as soon as I get my money, and I would recommend to everyone else to do the same.
Copyright © 2006
The Trii-Zine Ezine
www.ezines1.com
Comments
i hope to get my money back out of both of these companies, its a crying shame that we are having to go through this, seems to me like someone ought to have to serve some time for this crap,but, lawyers will make out on this as usual, and we the membership will be the losers as always, thats all i have, best wishes to you and us all,
I posted a new article on the feature page of this ezine, this morning: http://quikonnex.com/channe...
I have been the victim of fraudulent chargebacks by 12DP as well, and I have contacted the FBI, among other people.
For the record:
StormPay cannot issue chargebacks unless 12DP requests it. 12DP requested a chargeback to my StormPay account for the money they had paid me for my first upgrade period.
Again: STORMPAY CANNOT ISSUE A CHARGEBACK ULESS IT IS REQUESTED BY 12DP. So what does that tell me about 12DP? It tells me that they are liars and cheats. They have repeatedly told members that StormPay has been issuing refunds and messing with 12DP accounts, but the reality is that 12DP has been requesting these chargebacks, stealing the money of their paying members.
StormPay may be scamming people too, but 12DP is definitely scamming people and stealing money, and laying blame on StormPay.
Keep your eyes open for my next article, which will be titled: When Two Scams Collide.
Dear Trina,
12 Daily Pro has had their share of problems from day one--DDOS attacks, hacker attempts, viruses, etc. Someone out there has been trying their darnedest to shut them down from day one. In fact, many of these types of programs are targets for these kinds of problems.
I don't know when you had the problems with submitting a ticket, etc., but I do remember an announcement that they had to shut that down for awhile to rework the scripts. I believe they were also having a problem receiving emails, but am not positive about that.
I honestly do not know if programs like 12 Daily Pro are illegal or not, but I would like to address the reasons people like me joined them and promoted them.
I have a simple jewelry website. I cannot afford to pay the big bucks to get it advertised on Yahoo, MSN, etc.
Joining paid to surf or even free traffic exchange sites is a way for me, and people like me, to get traffic to my site, and the more traffic, the higher the ranking from the search engines, provided I put my site together right.
I also promoted 12 Daily Pro because, since July, 2005, they paid me every time, either on time or early, and 144% of my upgrades. So many of these types of sites are scams, and I have been a victim before, so to find a site that was paying that high of a return, and paying FAITHFULLY, was something of a miracle.
12 Daily Pro is not the only autosurf affected by StormPay--90% of them are. I personally belong to 16 autosurfs--1 I had already decided not to upgrade in again, as they have been having problems, and that one and all but 7 of the others have had their accounts frozen. One of the ones that wasn't affected didn't use StormPay as a payment processor. 5 of the ones not affected have the same owner. The others seem to have passed under the radar for now.
Out of the ones that have had their accounts frozen, 4 have allowed members to change pay processors without it affecting their accounts in any way.
I have an autosurfs blog, as well as a webpage with autosurf guidelines. I warn everyone to do a Whois search and DNS report before joining any program, because of all of the scam sites out there.
I only wish I had thought to take my own advice before joining StormPay. They have had bad reports since they have been in business. I didn't even think to check them out.
I also have had similar experiences as "Yikes", costing me $90 from chargebacks, plus the necklace I made and mailed to the customer that ordered it, then cancelled his payment as soon as he received it.
I even had one guy send me a fake PayPal statement, even though my item was in the StormPay Auctions (I accept PayPal as well), and had to report him to PayPal--that one didn't get my money or merchandise, but I also bought a camera last summer through StormPay Auctions, the guy took my money and I never received my camera. StormPay wouldn't cancel my payment, only replied that they had contacted the proper authorities.
If I have consistently been paid by 12 Daily Pro, and consistently been the victim of fraud through StormPay, who do you think I am going to believe? Or support? And actually, until the FBI investigations are over and made public, I do not fully believe 12 Daily Pro, either. However, just because it seems impossible to continue to pay those kinds of returns to members, that doesn't necessarily mean that it IS impossible.
The outcome ought to be interesting, that is for sure.
Thank you for letting me vent, lol.
Sincerely,
Shannon Bolin, Owner
Bolin Family Jewelry
I will not pass judgment on StormPay -- users, you judge for yourselves.
Fact: StormPay zeroed out my account a couple of days ago, calling it a chargeback to 12dp, to whom I owed NOTHING. It was only $5.xx, but it still was theft. Hearing rumors about StormPay last week, I went in (last week) to my account and removed my credit card and bank account information from my profile. Then, after the theft this week, I closed my account after filing a complaint support ticket -- no response of course. Latest news on the net is that StormPay has been and continues to remove all funds from not just autosurf website owners and members but from all other StormPay members...so beware. You figure it out. Today, I'm closing my bank account and opening a new one -- because members have said that StormPay is charging members' credit cards AND bank accounts. I'm not taking any more chances with them.
My guess as to the cause of StormPay's disappearence is this:
I think that their server has probably been shut down due to DOS. Too much traffic over loading the server and screwing things up.
With all of the controversy about 12DP and StormPay, I would imagine that thousands of people have tried to log on to SP site, and crashed it.
In the last seven days, the BBB of Tennessee has been swamped with inquiries as to StormPay's status. More than 18,000 inquiries.
As for myself, I have less than $20 in my StormPay account, and I have just notified my credit card company that they are not to honor any attempts by StormPay to charge my account.
No one is going to be able to do much more than that for themselves until the fallout clears and what remains becomes visible.
All the freaking out in the world can't change what we have no control over, so there's no point in wasting the energy.
My advice to everyone who is having trouble with StormPay is to contact the funding source for their SP account and red flag StormPay transactions.
Everyone also must realize that there is a real possibility that funds currently locked up in StormPay may never be recovered.
And for all of the people who are actively donating funds for 12DP's legal expenses... I am sorry for your ignorance. Here's your sign.
Trii
Yikes...
Found these postings doing a search on Stormpay scam - low and behold I find this forum. First of all a BIG thank you going out to those who have been posting on the subject 12DP and StormPay.
I am an online merchant; for the past 8 years, selling various products through auctions, classified ad sites etc, and just recently got an account from StormPay. Quickly I created a nice auction list of products and immediately I began making some decent money right off the bat - or so I thought.
Somehow (tisk tisk) StormPay allows "unverified" members to make an "active" purchase which reflects "paid" in your account. Traditionally I have had no problems elsewhere selling items, receiving payments, etc so I proceeded to order items and ship to my buyers.
The next thing I find out is I have several chargebacks from creditcard companies bring my balance to a negative ranging in the thousands! Turns out, StormPay is engulfed with fraudulent members scheming verified sellers out of money and products. My take on that - 0% trust in StormPay.
Here's another kicker for ya...
Currently I have over $10,000 in orders right now from NetIBA Verified members - these are good paying people. One problem...
I fear Stormpay is no longer online!! All day today I have been attempting to log onto Stormpay and the site doesn't even show up. I haven't recieved any notices of their site being down for any reason. (which any good site continuously keeps their customer base in tune).
If anyone has ANY news of what the hell is going on with StormPay, I'd sure appreciate it!
I know one thing...if I ever get to log on StormPay, I am certainly getting my funds sent home and cancelling my membership!
As far as 12DP, I seen that one coming lol!
I don't undrstand why you debate whether it is a scam, it is obvious. Anyone who promiss more gain than inflation, for no work at all, is a scammer. The ad's you see on autosurf sites are just ad's for other such things. You don't see well renowned companies GE, Ford, etc. My approach is one of game theory. How long time does a scam live that promisses x % per week?
You know, I really think that the people who are defending 12DP are just doing it out of denial. They don't want to accept that they've been scammed.
There is no way that they can pay as promised and turn a profit. Especially when you consider the expense of running the web site itself. They were in the whole before they even started. No wonder they can't afford their own legal fees! Geeze!
I think scam, but logic says more; since they theoretically make money by selling ads to people who hope to be seen by others "in the community" who are surfing; and since many if not all people who are in the program are there because they can surf without watching ads, or even clicking on a link; it is transparent that almost no one will look at ads, therefore not buy product or services. So who would advertise on a site where clearly no one would need to look at ads?
I threw my $12 in it, but with no expectation of returns as promised. But are there people with experience on the internet who really believed they'd make money at it?
I had the same experience Trina had, including the link upload and no way to identify problems to them.
Sounds to me like a bunch of naive people, or those who refused to see there just couldn't be income enough to pay out. I don't see how anyone that naive could come up with $1000 to put in. But there just are people....
What kind of company asks its members to donate money to offset legal fees?
12 Daily Pro, that's who!
There's a major indication that they are not a financially stable company, and you'd better get out while the gettin's good.
And here is another question:
How can a program promise to pay out more money, even 12%, than it takes in? It is mathematically impossible unless the money paid in is invested in something earning 12%. And, it would have to earn more than that for the program to make a profit of its own.
12 Daily Pro is not an investment opportunity, otherwise it would be regulated by the US Securities Commission. Therefore, there is no way your money can earn a thing.
12Daily Pro cannot pay its members because they don't have the funds to do so.
I am going to retract my previous statement about whether or not I think 12 Daily Pro is a scam. After careful consideration of the program, and the libelous information they are giving their members with regard to StormPay, I will go as far as to say... Yep, I think they're a scam.
Look for further reports on them. I plan to write more as the information becomes available to me.
Trina, excellent review. I've received some comments on one of my posts about this (http://www.quikonnex.com/ch...) and I think your article says it all. Their financial model reaks of ponzi scam. Can't prove that it is, but if it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck...
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